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Talk:Sebastian Vael
No download required if pre-ordered??? So, unless I'm misunderstood, is this plus the bioware signature edition page saying that if you pre-ordered D.A.2 he will automatically be a character on the game without having to download him? A new game of Dragon Age 2 will have a code inside that gives you the DLC for free like with Shale in DAO Talk about Familiar... HAs anyone noticed how Seb's background story mirror's the Cousland's origins? Taking out a noble family isn't exactly a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence in fantasy. * Yeah, but being able to gift his with his grandfather's bow? That sounds like more than coincidence :-). ** That's Howe, not Cousland. Green Arrow? I removed the piece of trivia that said that Sebastian may or may not be based on the Green Arrow. As near as I can tell, it's somebody's speculation based on... what? That he's an archer, too? He may have just as easily been based on Robin Hood (PLEASE don't add that...). Unless it's backed up by something (ie, somebody at Bioware confirming that Green Arrow was an inspiration) it's baseless speculation. --Sesana (talk) 19:02, February 20, 2011 (UTC) Aye, his name isn't even similar, nor is his Origin, nor appearance. The only thing in common is the bow. (talk) 19:15, February 20, 2011 (UTC) :The only other connection I can think of stems from the "of noble birth" description. I believe the Green Arrow was also sort of "of noble birth", originally a very privileged child from an extremely rich family. Matt 2108 (talk) 19:20, February 20, 2011 (UTC) That description can apply to literally thousands of characters, fictional or not. Might as well link him because he has light skin or because he's male. (talk) 19:35, February 20, 2011 (UTC) Sebastian and Green Arrow both use bows, have unshaken aim, had their families murdered which they take over and seek vengeance, it seems its a secret who is killing certain people in both cases as well... They have a lot in common actually... Aside from the unkown killers that is spot on for Robin Hood ( which the Green Arrow is based off) ^Regardless of the last post, it does not matter how well their stories match up, unless there is a "confirmation" from the devs that Green Arrow was used as a model for Sebastian, then there is no place for such speculation on this wiki. Linking directly to the short story. Does anyone know how to directly link to Sebastian's short story? Its a PDF file on his official page, but we can't seem to access it directly. Balitant (talk) 21:33, March 2, 2011 (UTC) I agree there should be a link to the story. I have been able to access from DragonAge.com but I can not find it now. You could access all the PDF short stories from there.--Diosprometheus (talk) 22:31, July 2, 2013 (UTC) Here's the link to the character page for the stories but his story is not listed there. http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/world/characters/merrill/--Diosprometheus (talk) 19:42, July 11, 2013 (UTC) Sebastian Romance Sebastian is a romance option, according to the official strategy guide, a preview of which can be found here. The other previews can be seen here, if anyone is interested. They note that the romance is chaste. Interesting. Guess I'll update the pertinent pages to reflect this. Rsek (talk) 23:59, March 3, 2011 (UTC) No Fair! Ok, I know that DLC's are good sources of "income" for video games and the ones who get it are true fans, I'll admit that. But making Sebastian a romance option doesn't seem fair to people like me who can't afford XBOX Live or PS3 network, etc.. I feel that all romancable characters should be available to everybody. I know I might get some negative comments for posting this, but I still wanted to express my feelings regarding this information. * Well the PS3 network is free, but I understand your point. Not a big fan of Day 1 DLC characters generally speaking.--Grattiano (talk) 20:47, April 8, 2011 (UTC) Starting his quest? Where can you recruit him/start his quest? Go find the chanters board, clear out three band of Flints, then meet him in chantry. But I don't know how to actually recruit him. You recruit him after you stop Arishok. By the way, sign your posts. -David Hellsly Nope, can recruit him after you finish his 2nd companion quest.....--Spell-Destructor (talk) 08:46, March 25, 2011 (UTC) infinite rivalry anyone else noticed that when Sebastian is in your party and you talk to the grand cleric and insult her you will get +5 rivalry. You can talk to her again and get the +5 again and again as long as you want. I managed to fill up rivalry completly. Flirty, but "Nice" Hawke May Still Get Stuck with Sebastian It seems that flirting with other characters does not always eliminate the possibility of a romance with Sebastian, but Sebastian's romance does remove other characters. I chose heart symbol dialogue numerous times with Anders and Fenris, and yet I was precluded from the love scene with Fenris (max friendship going in) and I lost most romantic dialogue for other romantic interests. I think if you romance Sebastien first, and choose paragon-like romantic flirts for the others, it really doesn't matter if you flirt with anyone else. You're locked with Sebastian by Act III. Didn't really test it with Isabella or Merill. Maybe you can sleep with Isabella. :What exactly does "paragon-like" flirts mean? *raised eyebrow* As for the locked-in part, I believe if you reach a certain point in completing their quests, with the appropriate scenes happening, you will become locked-in eventually, there's that point with all the romanceable characters. Currently I'm still thinking having never flirted with anyone else seems like a bit of a stringent requirement for a romance, especially since Anders will flirt with you from the very beginning and you are only offered two options: flirt back or kill all possibilties of romance with him right there. There's no in between, which makes things a bit difficult since Sebastian hasn't even joined officially in Act 1. I never change my choices or go from one person to the other in my romances, but I'd like to at least get a chance to know everyone (and spend some time to know them better) before making a choice, so this seems a bit extreme, to be forced to either accept or get cut off unknowingly from at least one choice so early in the game. Considering DA2 offers a lot more leeway in relationships and a closer resemblance to the complexity of real life romances, I'd think they would hardly make such an easily missed requirement just for Sebastian's romance. Can anyone confirm for sure this requirement of "absolutely no flirting with anyone else" to start Sebastian's romance?? One thing I'm wondering though. I'm 98% sure i romanced Sebastian but at the end he still said "i only wish- never mind..." i hit all the romance clues, killed anders had him at max rivalry, and never flirted with anyone else? And was he supposed to stick with hawke and not "go their separate ways" in the epilogue? Texx89 (talk) 21:58, April 17, 2011 (UTC) No Romance at the end? I just now finished a playthrough of D.A.II and I tried romancing Sebastian. However, I am confused. How do you know if the romance was completed if romancing him doesn't earn the achievement, is their something he say's differently if romanced in the Gallows prior the confrontation, and is Varric supposed to mention his name in the epilogue like he does if you romanced any of the other characters? How can I tell if the romanced was completed?--J Shepard (talk) 16:03, April 30, 2011 (UTC) :Developers just didn't spend enough time to make more about him. They were under pressure of time, so they resigned from many things like Anders' cat or Shale was replaced by Nathaniel, everything because of not enough time. (talk) 07:48, March 21, 2013 (UTC) Sparing Anders ---- (SPOILER) Sparing Anders will cause him to storm off to Starkhaven even if you have 100% friendship with him.--Diosprometheus (talk) 15:49, May 7, 2011 (UTC) :So, Anders is to Sebastian what Loghain is to Alistair... -- Marvin Arnold (talk) 20:39, November 15, 2011 (UTC) Sebastian's story It's not over yet! http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/306/index/6654731&lf=8 Lying Memories (talk) 07:30, July 10, 2011 (UTC) Sebastian notoriously hated? There was this line in the trivia section of the wiki which I removed, as there is no factual/actual/empirical basis for it. There are countless fans of Sebastian and there is a significant Sebastian fandom at popular fan hangouts around the web. As is true for all the rest, some people like certain characters and others dislike them. There is no logical reason to single out Sebastian as a 'hated' character. It adds nothing to the wiki other than one person's partial and biased opinion. romancing sebastian yes, i wanna romance sebastian, but i looked at some of the flirt dialogue on youtube. is there a way to romance him without being a total creeper? Mikazuki (talk) 01:43, August 7, 2011 (UTC) The romance info given for Sebastian is at least partially wrong. He needs 100 percent rivalry -- not 75 percent -- in order to trigger his Act III "Questioning Beliefs" quest (and therefore in order to complete the rivalry romance). I can't personally verify if the same is true for the friendship romance, but I suspect that it might be. I got Sebastian to 100 percent rivalry during the Legacy DLC (which I played right before going into the endgame). It immediately triggered his Act III "Questioning Beliefs" quest (logged in my journal even though I couldn't go play it at that moment). Knowing this, I wonder if the info given on the main page: "A bug can occur in Act 2 and Act 3 when after finishing Repentance or Faith quest Questioning Beliefs won't trigger even if character has required amount of Friendship or Rivalry points. This cannot be prevented and leaves player unable to complete romance with Sebastian. It has not yet been patched." This may not be a bug. Instead, it may simply be that characters require more Friendship or Rivalry points than previously supposed. (talk) 04:08, September 1, 2011 (UTC)Siduri What will he say if the romance was successful, because when I tried to romance him, he said something and then was like "Never mind." Is that what he says or is it something else?--J Shepard (talk) 15:12, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Prince status If Starkhaven has no king, but prince is higest rank there, then who are sons of prince? If SH had king calling Sebastiab a former prince would be no problem, but can we call his former status son of prince or else?FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 19:26, March 21, 2014 (UTC) ::Heir to Starkhaven or Heir apparent to Starkhaven could be his title as the first person in line for succession. Then again the validity of that claim would be disputed since he took vows as a Lay brother to renounce his rights to the throne and Goran Vael and the other one could be saying they are the rightful heir to starkhaven.(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 04:50, March 22, 2014 (UTC)) ::An heir is not a title. Henio0 (talk) 06:51, March 22, 2014 (UTC) Prince of Starkhaven edit war Despite being only a minor issue in my mind, it seems like we're quickly descending into an edit war over whether Sebastian is the "self-proclaimed" Prince of Starkhaven or a contender for the throne. Personally, I much prefer the latter title. To say that Sebastian is self-proclaimed implies that A) he has a dubious claim (he does not - he is a direct heir of his father the prince) and B) the player followed the path which leads Sebastian to plan to press his claim, rather than staying in the Chantry. Whatever the consensus, I'd like to emphasize how unproductive edit wars are, and request that a discussion is carried out here in full before any more edits to the article are made on this particular topic. 20:18, April 2, 2014 (UTC) Sebastian should be listed as a contender. See above. 20:18, April 2, 2014 (UTC) He was the third child, never meant to be the heir. The prince was to be one of his brothers, and thus he was sent to the Chantry. He lost his right to a royal title when he became a lay brother. Starkhaven has a prince already, and and he is the prince by law. He may have a claim to the throne, but so does his cousin. Henio0 (talk) 20:36, April 2, 2014 (UTC) :Moira Theirin is also a daughter of the ruling monarch, with the strongest claim to the throne. Doesn't mean she was ever a contender. Henio0 (talk) 20:42, April 2, 2014 (UTC) On reflection, I'd like to propose a middle ground. Sebastian should be listed as Prince of Starkhaven with either "Disputed" (in line with our guidelines on the family template) or "Claimant" next to it. Whichever way I look at it I'm afraid I quite can't bring myself to support "Self-proclaimed" for the reasons listed above, though Disputed or Claimant seem like reasonable compromises to me. 20:43, April 2, 2014 (UTC) I'm not sure why this is suddenly about whether or not Sebastian is the heir. He's the son of a prince, which means that he was himself a prince at one point. He renounced that when he joined the Chantry, but that doesn't change that his title used to be Prince. So shouldn't the infobox just say "Prince (formerly)"? Why should the fact that he is or is not the heir even be addressed in the title field? Kelcat (talk) 23:57, April 2, 2014 (UTC) :: I like just putting "Disputed". Seems a good compromise choice which still gets the point across.- (talk) 01:05, April 3, 2014 (UTC) :It's confusing because Starkhaven doesn't have a king, but a prince. Sebastian was never a prince, he was just the third child of the prince. We may get the impression that he is a prince because he calls himself one, but he's not actually one. Henio0 (talk) 05:02, April 3, 2014 (UTC) He's not a prince yet. And he wasn't a prince ever, his father was with his elder brother next in line. When the Vael family was murdered, Sebastian was already a lay brother. He's also not "disputed". His cousin is. One needs to have a title for it to be disputed. Sebastian doesn't have it. I also find "self-proclaimed" to be too strong a word. I'm fine with "contender" or "claimant". Asherinka (talk) 09:05, April 3, 2014 (UTC) :So what are the children of princes/princesses called? (talk) 14:22, April 3, 2014 (UTC) ::We have no information on that. Asherinka (talk) 14:36, April 3, 2014 (UTC) ::: Then it can't be said for certain that he was never a prince, as that may be the title of a prince's son and a title that Sebastian may at one time have had claim to. Best to just put "disputed" and be done with it. --Kelcat (talk) 02:18, April 4, 2014 (UTC) ::::That's like saying human noble warden is a teyrn because their father is one. I don't like "disputed", best I could go for is "claimant".Henio0 (talk) 09:17, April 4, 2014 (UTC) "Hawke will not see him again until three years later." Not in my experience. He's at the Chantry but hasn't much to say. (talk) 19:22, September 11, 2014 (UTC) Inquisition I don't edit the article because I'm not sure of the editing rules, especially with all the info coming from Inquisition. So my Hawke romanced Sebastian as a rival in DA2, and thus, Anders was executed. Here's what I've collected so far : Varric mentions Sebastian when asked about Hawke's entourage. He states that Sebastian returned to Starkhaven, where he is surelly boring everyone. At the War Room table, a mission is made available through a letter of Sebastian, as Ruler of Starkhaven. He acknowledges and support the Inquisition. An Advisor can secure said support (always money for me) back to Haven. When Hawke is met and asked why she is alone, she says that "Sebastian is the Chantry advisor in Starkhaven. The throne is still in contention there. Without him, it would be open war among the noble families. He'd have dropped everything to come with me, but he'd have hated himself for doing it." On a side note, Varric often (well, at least twice :D) compares Blackwall to Sebastian during banters. Don't know if the info has its place in the Sebastian trivia section ? Charoleia (talk) 15:15, November 29, 2014 (UTC) Chaste marriage or celibacy? So, a marriage can be chaste yet not celibate. However, many people conflate the two words. So, any know for sure, which specifically marriage with Sebastian is? They say chaste, but is that what they mean, or do they actually mean chaste AND celibate? AbsolutGrndZer0 (talk) 15:45, September 28, 2015 (UTC) : I think since it's referred to as chaste that's how we should keep it in the article. I don't see a need to add whether or not celibacy is involved. -- 20:00, September 28, 2015 (UTC) :: I agree with Kelcat. However I would not oppose adding the fact that it is not celibate if it is explicitly stated in the game. Asherinka (talk) 22:18, September 28, 2015 (UTC) Can you help Sebastian *without* accepting and completing the Duty quest (exterminating the Flint Company)? In keeping with my nickname, this is going to be a newbiesh question, so please bear with me. I'm doing some fact-checking before committing to the Exiled Prince DLC. I would love to help Sebastian put his microstate back in order and even personally help him win back the throne, but agreeing to kill off an entire organization for revenge as the stated motive would be extremely out-of-character for my Hawke, let alone as a paid job. It is my understanding that accepting Duty is the only way, so I am out of luck and no Sebastian for me. Or am I wrong and there is a way to avoid killing off the Flints? Alternatively, are there any other in-game indications that the Flints are dangerous criminals who need to be brought down with lethal force (i.e. any other reason to go and take them out other than satiating Sebastian's thirst for revenge)? For what it's worth, thank you in advance for any answers to this. (talk) 13:00, September 6, 2016 (UTC)NewbieOneKenobi (talk) 13:00, September 6, 2016 (UTC) :They're a bunch of low grade mercenaries who attack and try to kill travelers on sight....so in short, no. Also its very small organization and every single member of said organization was directly involved in the coup'd'etat - 15:55, September 6, 2016 (UTC)